How to NOT die first in LA LLORONA (2020)

No. This is not that one Conjuring Universe movie with Linda Cardellini. This is a really good movie called La Llorona, directed by Jayro Bustamante. You may not have seen this one. See it! It's moving, unnerving, and tells a powerful narrative lionizing brown indigenous women. Find out the rule to survival in a world where killers face their reckoning. 

Transcript

Tawny: 0:19

You guys ain't had the you ain't shit lecture yet. Like you meet the kids who are like, I'm like you haven't had somebody show you that you ain't shit. And until you have that you have that happen to you, you're gonna be a fucked up human being.

Chris: 0:34

Thank you, Ms. Ochoa. Hello, welcome to Survivor's Ed, how to not die first in a horror movie. I'm Chris.

Tawny: 0:57

I'm Tawny.

Miles: 0:58

I'm Miles.

Chris: 0:59

And we are two blacks and a Mexican who like to be scared all the time. This. So this show is all about how we dive into horror movies of varying levels of quality, some great, some absurd, and some off the beaten path. This week we're talking about La Llorona, a Guatemalan film by director Jayro Bustamante. This is not to be confused with the not so great. very mad cursive law yet? Oh, no, that was part of the controversy. But this movie actually came out in 2020. And got like a 97% on Rotten Tomatoes, and was really compelling to all three of us. So we decided to check it out. And this is probably the least known by the public-at-large movie that we've done. But I think it's one that a lot of people should see. So we're gonna talk about it. The story is basically about a Guatemalan general who committed who had a very big hand and committing a genocide 30 years before the events in this movie. And there is fallout when you commit genocide, who would have thought? And so this movie sort of plays out in a supernatural way. What that fallout of his actions actually looked like. So without further ado, what is the situation in La Llorona?

Tawny: 2:37

Oh, man, there's like a couple of layers. Right? So we have the folkloric sort of tradition of La Llorona that I you know, and I'm American like I'm not gonna front like I'm from Mexico or I'm from Latin America but um, but I definitely heard you know, my grandma tell some La Llorona stories and La Llorona was always, I'm like, traditionally sort of a cautionary figure. She was going to like be good Don't go Don't venture out. La Llorona is going to get you. And as I was telling the guys earlier, like I wrote a paper about this in college. There's the figure of La Llorona, like La Llorona is very often in the in the folklore, she's like a woman who's an indigenous woman who's been maybe had children by lots of time like a Spaniard, or a white like a European. And he betrays her, he leaves her he in and out of grief, she kills her children in the river, and then like roams the river, the rivers in any waterways, wailling for her loss children and stealing living children to replace her dead ones, right? So she's this sort of like, don't, don't go outside your community sort of warning or like, don't be sexually, you know, like, Don't Don't be with some guy because this is what's going to happen to you. Don't be fast, don't trust people. And then there's like, um, she's often conflated with la malinche, I don't know if you guys know who that is. But she's the, the woman who helped Adnan Cortez, conquer the Aztecs. By being like she was sort of the the communicator. And so like, a lot of what La Llorona means is tied up in malinche, like the curse woman. So it's never been a good thing. or any sort of righteous thing. Like that's not that's not a quality that's associated with Llorona. And what is fascinating about this movie, and what I really appreciated about it.

Chris: 4:50

oh, hold on, hold on.

Tawny: 4:51

Oh, sorry.

Chris: 4:54

If you haven't seen law yet, oh, no, we will get into spoilers. So, if you haven't seen it, check out of our wonderful podcast, watch that movie, come back and have, and join in our wonderful discussion.

Miles: 5:11

People get so mad if you don't say that.

Chris: 5:17

Now... Oh, you're back! Great!

Tawny: 5:21

Excellent.

Chris: 5:21

Tawny, finish your thought.

Tawny: 5:23

no, sorry that I don't want to be long winded, but, um, the movie this movie, and I had heard about it because I had seen that shitty Linda Cardellini and I love Linda Cardellini mostly, but that was just, I can't even I can't even remember a single plot point, which is saying something because I remember everything about stories, I can't remember a single thing. Um, and I remember being like, I got to get around to that. And I have Shutter and it's a Shutter original, Shutter, the horror channel, if you're not subscribed, like I actually love it. It's full of like fun little gems.

Chris: 6:01

It's a nice plug, we should reach out to them for some money.

Tawny: 6:04

Finally, finally got to it and was not disappointed. It's a beautiful film. It's beautifully shot and inverts the meaning of light on a to be empowering for indigenous people. And, and in a, in a way that feels completely genuine and authentic and not like some sort of forced, we're gonna rewrite this story and make it about the villain or whatever. Like, it's not that at all. It's completely thoughtful and beautiful and true to the spirit of like, you know, decolonization? Um, that I think is sort of rippling through the Zeitgeist at this moment.

Miles: 6:46

I mean, I'm not familiar with this at all, obviously. I am not any type of Latin descent at all. So yeah, I mean, I did watch that Curse of La llorona. I did watch that. And I was like, Okay, why? Like, like, Tony, I don't really remember much from that movie. So yeah, but this one I mean, immediately I text you guys in the chat like this is like a hella a A24-style movie like that which makes it which is dope that is a Shutter original because like I've I've only heard of Shutter I've never actually been on there until now and what not enough going on there. I'm like, and man I should've had this a long time ago like watching it up. I was super impressed like that. I mean, this is a brilliantly-put-together film like the cinematography is is exceptional. I texted you guys while I was watching it, like the opening shot. I was like, yep, this is my type of movie right here. It just this is this is this hooks me immediately. I mean, the acting is great. It's it's a slow burn like if you're in which is kind of like the type of movie that I enjoy. I like movies that take its time to establish like what's going on and give me some breathing room like it really is not in a rush to tell the story that is telling. And I'm glad I'm glad for that actually cuz it man like it just I'm invested the whole time I'm creeped out like subtly creeped out. It's not trying to make you jump. And the thing is like we're prepped for like horror movies. So we're expecting you know something that happened at a certain moment so they're doing this long shot is a lot of long shots and you because you have so much experience with horror movies, you're automatically like expecting something to happen that jump out. And I was watching it late to it was like, midnight, it's dark as hell. By myself, I'm looking around and I have my headphones on I like when I texted you guys. I was like, I don't know if I should watch this because I watched it with headphones on and if you watch a movie with headphones it's way more like, I have noise cancelling, these big ass ones...

Tawny: 9:11

So you're immersed

Miles: 9:12

So you're immersed in it and it's way creepier like you can really hear the sound design and like the little creaks and cracks and subtleties. So I was watching and I was like, super into this and I was like looking over my shoulder every five minutes. I was like this is this is done like really well the suspense, but they don't do any cheap scares, which I like. I like that they played it straight. like nah, this is not just some typical horror film where we're just gonna do this suspense build up and then we're gonna something crazy is gonna jump out. I was I was waiting on that. And I was gonna roll my eyes as soon as it happened, and it never happened. And I'll say okay, yeah, this is, uh, this is my type of film. And again, it's subverted my expectations enough to where I was like, okay, damn, like, not only was this shot Well, the screenplay is great. The acting is great. I'm like, but it just kind of did something I wasn't expecting it to do so. I mean, if you haven't seen this, and you saw the other one, please watch this one. Yes. So you can like cleanse your mind. Another one cuz Yeah, I think Like you said, Tawny, I know you said the story is slightly different from what the actual, like folklore is. But watch this one. This one is better. I don't even know if that other one was true to this story or not. But

Tawny: 10:31

it fits with it though. Like even though it inverts it, it doesn't. It doesn't cancel it it like. It's more truthful, I think, yeah. Like about what the moral you're supposed to take from these events are like, instead of being like, that's a bad woman that slept with someone and had kids and did. Like, it's like, No, those motherfuckers came over and fucked up everybody's life. And that's what happened. And so that's why it doesn't feel it doesn't feel like a betrayal, you know, of the folklore, it feels very true to it, and which is wonderful.

Chris: 11:07

Yeah... I think... And that's what will fasten what you just said about, it feels like a shift in the perspective, knowing now knowing that, that there's that history, because what really gets me about this movie, like when I first started watching the first portion of the movie, you are following this general and his family. And it struck me because he's immediately presented as a clearly a bad guy, right? Like he's done his horrible things, and everyone hates him for a good reason. And he gets away with it. And you've just like, put it in the shoes of and in the house literally, of what seems to be this protagonist that you don't want to be around, you know, in the kind of following his daughter and stuff. And you can tell that she's not on board with who he is. But she's, she's part of the family. So she's here and his wife and everything. But he's being haunted already. And you can see that. And then when they introduce this character, Alma, it's really interesting, because she's this beautiful woman, she comes walking through this crowd, and she immediately makes eye contact with him. It's just such an unsettling moment. All she does is look at him. But in that moment, you're like, oh, okay, and she comes in. And what I love about the movie is it doesn't try to obfuscate or hide what's happening, the things just play out. And you have to try to you as a viewer are just following what's happening. So like, they don't try to hide the fact that Alma is something different and supernatural, and she's part of this haunting, that is played very openly and straight. It's not like some reveal at the end, like, Oh, it was her the whole time. Now you the whole time, you're just like, Okay, what you have to do to him? That's what I want to know, you know? Yeah. And I actually love it, because it's like, you're kind of following her and allowing her to kind of, sort of as she steps into the story. Like, I was thinking like, okay, she's definitely like, the ghost or whatever you want to call it. She's definitely like the haunting. But there's scenes where you're just with her? Which, how often do you get that in a horror movie where you're just with the ghost or whatever

Miles: 13:31

That's a good point,

Chris: 13:32

it's such a cool thing, because you're like, you're then you're then afforded an opportunity to connect and empathize with the ghost. And it's so creative to me,

Tawny: 13:43

it is a completely creative, there are so many little turns, you know, so, you know, just to kind of lay out the plot. So you're introduced to this general, he's on trial for genocide. And this is based on I wish I can't, I hadn't right here. He's based on a real dude. Right? Like who and this happened like he was convicted for genocide and then it was immediately overturned. And so you know, and I read Rigoberta Mench is actually has like a she says a cameo in this and she was like a part of it this like freedom fighter for

Chris: 14:19

Oh, really?

Tawny: 14:20

Yes, she's in it. Um, but so this happens. And meanwhile, like, you know, you're sort of you have the perspective of the daughter, who's a doctor who's enjoyed all the privilege of being raised as like a white Latino, like a white person in Latin America. The servants are all indigenous looking like that's like that's like right from the beginning they show the opening scene. And then just slowly like, the things get filled in and one of my favorite things is that like they show that the opening scene that that that like really creepy, fast prayer or whatever the hell they're doing that looks more like a seance than a castle.

Miles: 15:00

I love that shot.

Tawny: 15:02

And then they show the guys who are like alright, you wear the tie, you wear the you know, the windsor knot and then your shirt has to be perfect. If he goes down we go down next. And that doesn't pay off until the end of the movie, like you forget about it. Kind of like all the guys are sitting in the room going like what do we do if they get the General, you're like, Oh shit. And then there's a trial and then Alma shows up. And you think that she's going after the girl like the little girl like you because that's the that's the traditional La Llorona narrative is she's there for you. She's here for your kids. And it seems like that. And that's very, like, deliberate that it seems like she's trying to, but really, she's teaching her how to hold her breath. How to use an oxygen tank to survive underwater. And then the girl, it's Sara right? Like she tells us she tells her mom like she told me not to drown. Like, she's not here for the kids. Um...

Miles: 16:01

You like, making me like this movie more than like... I mean I already dug it. I already thought it was like a good movie. But nowthat you....

Tawny: 16:11

And my mother when she like, when she starts having like the weird like conjunctivitis and then like, has the dream sequences and she's the snobbiest like most awful person in this movie, like, she's got cucumbers on her eyes going, like too bad all those people died. You know, like, and, and the and the indigenous woman's probably your half sister. And she calls them she calls them whores. You know, she calls the the native women or the the indigenous women whores, basically. And then, and then all of a sudden she has to, she has to feel what, what Alma... And oh, by the way, do you guys know what Alma means? It means soul.

Miles: 16:53

Yo, they snapped. They went in, they went in

Chris: 17:00

Bars.

Tawny: 17:03

This movie is a rich text, like completely.

Chris: 17:06

That's fire man. The only other thing I can add, like, I can't like... knowing that context just adds so many layers to it, because you can tell he's speaking to folks who already know this stuff, right? And for me, like learning it within the context of that film, just like adds so many layers to it.

Miles: 17:23

That's the one thing I will say real quick like that. I appreciate his. I hate when I see a movie set in a certain culture and everybody there's just speaking English everybody. There's British or whatever, like, typically, I hate that. I'm glad, like, if you don't know, like, this movie is subtitled, which, for me, I love because it's authentic, it feels more authentic to me, like, don't just try to sell I think like, and maybe that's why a lot of people maybe don't know about this, because people just struggle with that, for whatever reason. I won't say, for whatever reason I understand to some extent, whenever I watch a movie with subtitles, like the first 10 minutes, for me, is an adjustment because I'm trying to pay attention to all of the imagery, but then I'm also trying to follow the story that's being told, like what the dialogue, so there's like a 10 minute window of me trying to adjust to that. But then after that 10 minutes, I'm comfortably into it, and I'm fine. So I just like the authenticity of the film of like them making it be set in this because there's movies that they do that it's set in a certain place and then everybody's British and speaking for the American audience. And I'm glad that they were like nah, fuck that. Like this is--

Tawny: 18:44

They throw some Mayan at us and like I remember being like, because I don't speak Spanish, but I know it like when I hear it. I'm like, Oh, that's Spanish and I can make out a lot of it. But like all of a sudden I was like, What the fuck is that? And it's a what's the language called? Like? I'm gonna get it wrong. Hold on. I looked at it. Do you guys know did you look this up at all? So like the language of the Mayan...Ixil?

Miles: 19:06

Oh, yeah. I always look up stuff.

Tawny: 19:09

Can you remember the name of... ?

Miles: 19:13

Oh, I look up everything.

Chris: 19:15

Well, I didn't know that she was speaking of like, I'm glad that it told in substitles that she was speaking a different... dialect because I was like, oh, that matters

Miles: 19:26

Yeah, it The thing about the general too, like he killed her right? Spoiler alert. The fact that he the fact that he this goes to show like what type of like piece of shit this dude is he doesn't even really recognize her her walking up like her walking up and there's something there that he feels he's paranoid or whatever because of all the like...

Tawny: 19:51

Also titilated

Miles: 19:53

Yeah, exactly. Most like guilty men who are like wealthy and like rich like do all these terrible things and then like as they get older they start to record a lot of the things that they did and like their their demons come You know, walking up to their front door, literally in this movie, but like the fact that he doesn't even recognize her like goes to show you like how much of a piece of shit he was like I don't ever remember. I don't even remember you are doing this shit to you. That's That's how many times I've done this before. That's how many people I pretty much just treated as you know, like nothing like

Tawny: 20:30

Like they weren't... like they weren't people.

Miles: 20:31

Yeah, like they weren't human. Yeah.,

Tawny: 20:33

That fucking scene in the bat like the the scene where she like where she's, he sees her swimming or whatever and then he goes and she's naked and she's like ringing her dress out in the bathtub that reminded me so much like, and I just got this vibe of The Shining, like the the expression on Jack's face when he's like, like, he's just like, he has this like gross like mischievious. Like, like, I'm like, like, just it grossed me out so bad. And I was like, I remember I like I was watching it at four o'clock in the morning and going like, Where's this... My sleep is so messed up. And I'm wondering, what are they going to, like, what is this director going to do with it? So she's sitting there she's, she looked like however spectral she actually is. And however much of a spirit she is. She has this physical form. She's come back, like from wherever to avenge her children. And she's sitting very, really on the edge of the bathtub ringing her dress out. And I remember just being like, wow, they actually like, where they took that was like, she sees him and she screams like he's, what does she say? Like he's harassing me or something? I was not expecting that. Like, I was sort of expecting this passive like, Oh, he's just going to be creeped out or like something. And the fact that they went to this place of like, actually acknowledging, like this gross viejo cochino, which means dirty old man. Please memorize that term.

Chris: 22:07

It's imprinted.

Tawny: 22:08

Viejo cochino, like dirty old man is like staring at me. Like, he wants to, like do shit to me. And they and they acknowledged. And it was such an interesting point. For me. I wasn't expecting it at all.

Chris: 22:20

And it was good because there was a duality of how she was haunting him. He literally haunting him and sort of unsettling him through these things that are kind of calling back. And then and then in the on the flip side in the real space, or whatever you want to call it. Also, revealing his disgusting nature as well. And the other thing I have one other thing I wanted to say the other thing I really love about this is the cinematography, like the filming of it?

Miles: 22:56

Gorgeous.

Chris: 22:57

I think I text it like the use of still... still cameras in this, like I always sort of, you know, as somebody who tries to do a little bit of filmmaking like, I always sort of feel limited by the tripod. Because I don't I'm I'm still trying to wrap my head around the best ways to sort of use it to create really good, gorgeous shots. And what they do with the still camera in this film, there's so many scenes, like where the camera is just still and all these things are happening and it's still coming to life. And it actually adds to the tension. Yeah, I particularly like what the scene I think I really sent a chill up my spine is when... what's the daughter's name? Natalia?

Tawny: 23:45

Yeah. Natalia?

Chris: 23:46

Yeah, she was she goes out there and all the whole crowd is like just staring at her and throughout the movie, we've seen little you know, people within the crowd making eye contact and when you go out there and there's no there's no beat there's no score in that moment. And to me that's what was unsettling is like usually you get a little pulse or something like a little... you know, that's just the horror direction right? There's nothing she just goes out there and you see it it's going on and it just lingers and goes back and it's just like that did that's gonna stay in my head for a long time. This large group of brown people

Tawny: 24:27

This backdrop like it's yeah it's the whole setting is we're surrounded by a fucking angry as indigenous brown people and it's like reckon with this shit.

Chris: 24:38

Yeah.

Miles: 24:39

This entire movie is pretty sparse with music. It's it there's some atmosphere seven there's some music in some places, but a lot of times it's really it's more atmosphere than it is actual music happening like they they try to really it really like forces you to like feel like you're in wherever you know this is happening. You do you definitely feel immersed. And I definitely I feel like like the the film nerd in me like, was on the same page as Chris like just looking at the shots because a lot of it is a lot of it is just them. Focusing on one thing, and there's movies that they do a lot of pretty, like camera movements and stuff. And this is just the panning in and out of stuff. Yeah, they mostly panning out. And the dope thing is like, they pan out of stuff. And then the further they get out, the more they just reveal what's going on. Like, they show you one thing, and then they just there's a ton of elaborate stuff happening. Like, as you pull out, it's like, Damn, it's a lot happening in this room, or outside or whatever they do. They do that like a lot in this movie, like, and I laugh because I'm watching. I'm like, yo, how slowly are they painting like that? That whoever is doing even at the speed of last nail? Yeah. Pulling out Yeah. But it's effective. It's effective as hell, but it's, yeah, I mean, that's a dope movie, man. Even like, more like the blue heron like you explain it more. I'm like, This movie is fire, man. I mean, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it anyway.

Chris: 26:23

You know how we feel about fire.

Miles: 26:25

Oh, yeah. I enjoyed it anyway, but I'm, when you start peeling it back more. It's like, that's interesting that they didn't make her monster... and she is technically...

Tawny: 26:37

She's beautiful, she has the fucking glossiest hair I've ever seen. That scene when she comes in. And the little girls like, I want to grow my hair long. I'm like, I wanna grow my hair long now. Fucking best hair I've ever seen.

Miles: 26:52

Because that's like the urge, in most cases in a horror movie is to show her being beautiful. And then, you know, hook you in, and then you know, I was surely expecting that when he walked in the bathroom she was gonna turn around and her face was gonna be falling apart or something. Something crazy, crazy shit, because that's what that's what you do on a horror movie. And no, they didn't. They made him the monster.

Tawny: 27:18

They made him the monster. And she I was thinking about the frog. And it's like, she shows her the frog. Right? And I'm like, she's showing you how to swim. Like, is that is that the significance of the frog? Like, this girl immediately is like, the and the scenes and it's so amazing because she's so creepy. Like, we talked about the scene where she hangs over the bunk bed upside down. You're like, What the fuck is that? Are we in the grudge? Like what's happening? And, um, but then like, they show her that there's a beautiful scene where she's sitting on the floor, and she looks weird as fuck and her hair's blowing. And then they they pull out a little bit and it's like the little girls playing with her. Like she's blowing the hairdryer. And it's so it's so beautiful. Like she's tender and loving and affectionate and she's the most her... she's the most human in those scenes where she's interacting with the child and the most ghastly and scary when you know this fucking predator is nearby. And I think that's fucking awesome

Chris: 28:29

And I think that that uh, that gives us an easy segue because when we talk about you know in this show, we always have a seat we always have a segment called "You good, homie?" And in this scenario, Tawny, who is homie?

Tawny: 28:48

homie is our girl Valeriana. Um, the one servant who stays behind because she's basically the legitimate daughter of the general, who he just sort of showed up with and we learned that in the movie, and actually even before I talk about her like, the transformation of the mother... of the wife in this movie is kind of amazing. Like, she goes from being this like, horrible snotty classest, racist aristocrat to having to be submerged in Alma reality. And and she acknowledges at one point that Valeriana is the illegitimate daughter of her husband's, who he brought because he couldn't keep his hands off the Indians like, los Indios, I think she calls them or something like that. Um, she's the fucking one that saves them when everybody shows up at the end to like, when when all my calls all the souls of the desaparecidos like the disappears back from the grave to show up at this mansion. The only thing that saves those people is that Mayan prayer Valeriana, so I think that keep the culture is the rule of survival for this one.

Chris: 30:13

And so we talk about our people in this scenario because some people might not realize it. When you talk to him about, you know, in South America and a South American country where a lot of there's a lot of assumptions that we make as Americans that like, Oh, you know, Spanish speaking people, you know that they're that aren't still these divides based on colorism, racism. And if you look at this movie, it's like, oh, wait a minute. All the brown people are servants and are outside and are you know... and in this genocide when we go back and look at it, who was being slaughtered? And it's so it's interesting when we go into like, are you gonna tell me like, I guess that's what what I really wrestled with was like, how did we do in this scenario in terms of, you know? Because like, Yes, in the end, I feel like retribution was taken. But at what cost? You know, and so like, I feel like it's like one of those. It's almost it's almost weirdly weirdly parallel to Dusk Till Dawn.

Tawny: 31:33

The backdrop, is genocide. Like the backdrop is oppression, right?

Chris: 31:37

Yeah. Yeah. That's Wow. And so like, it creates a scenario where it's like...

Tawny: 31:43

Maybe there's a way forward, like maybe that's the message of this movie. And that Valeriana saves them all. And it's it's the wife (spoiler). I love that move. I fucking love that move. I love that I love that she saw happen. He shot her and then they separated at that point, right like spiritually like she was no longer and she was like, I'm gonna kill this motherfucker. Yeah, she did. Like that brought me joy.

Chris: 32:16

Let me come back to reality and he was she... or we cut back to present...

Tawny: 32:20

and they're just looking at her like...

Chris: 32:23

Okay. So you know how bad you have to be for your whole family to just stand there watch you get...

Miles: 32:31

And just rock with it like yeah like... they just cool with it

Tawny: 32:38

In your tank top with your fucking arsenal in your closet or whatever that people can't get keep guns--Oh, how does this guy keep getting up in the night and getting guns? Like what are the bodyguards is doing? He's like just guns and he's shooting people in his sleep.

Miles: 32:54

I know I'm gonna get knocked for like agism or whatever. At a certain age... listen goddamn it. Okay, take the guns away from this dude please like...

Tawny: 33:06

Put up a child safety gate.

Miles: 33:08

I'm not saying all old people... but some old people.. just sit down, ok? You had your turn or whatever like just sit down because this dude, he almost shot his wife like what are you doing man? like come on man.

Tawny: 33:23

He shot his granddaughter

Miles: 33:25

Yeah he literally shot, yeah, he did.

Tawny: 33:28

But like you totally shot her

Chris: 33:30

that was what--yeah, yeah the right to bear arms is gone for you, the only arms he can bear those are his tiny little bat arms.

Tawny: 33:38

... arm wrestling and win at... and I'm a tiny woman

Miles: 33:45

He was mad skinny. Get some weight on you motherfucker.

Chris: 33:51

I think that probably helped the imagery of this tiny man trying to you know who

Tawny: 34:00

This pathetic motherfucker. Yeah,

Miles: 34:03

Well, so that's also like I think sort of the the hardest thing about getting older is like you become feeble your body fails on you and this person who at one point wasthis dictator that had control over an entire country of people is now just some old feeble ass man like that couldn't whoop anybody's ass to be honest with you. Like that's responsible for killing all of these people. And even the the wife they sort of like poke at that as well with her like, needing to wear those nighttime underwear or whatever the case is like... When you get older, the shit that you did when you were younger like it really... like age and time really fucks you up. Time will show you that like you ain't shit. You might have been you're doing this or whatever when you were younger, but okay, I'm here in the form of Alma like, like in this case, but when time... because that's all this is time. When time besides the meet your ass at the door is like yeah, you ain't really...

Tawny: 35:19

I fucking love that. Absolutely no. And I think like, I think sometimes I think what I think about, um, you know, like, as a teacher or whatever, I think you, guys ain't had the"you ain't shit" lecture yet. Like you meet the kids who are like, I'm like, you haven't had somebody show you that you ain't shit. And until you have that happen to you, you're gonna be a fucked up human being.

Chris: 35:43

Thank you, Ms. Ochoa.

Tawny: 35:47

From the bottom is the most loving thing you can do to somebody is to let them know like, you ain't shit. You're terrible.

Miles: 35:53

... that nobody cares. Like, I have friends that are like, much younger than me to do music. And a lot of times I give them advice on you know, how they should go about things. And they have these grand ideas about you know, who they are as an artist, and all these things that they want to do that will be significant to everyone when they do it. And I always hit them with the like, straight truth like, dude, nobody gives a fuck about any of the things that you just said. Nobody cares that you're releasing this on your birthday, and that your mom shares the same birthday and that all this stuff happened on that day. Nobodyknows you. Nobody gives a fuck about any of that stuff. And I'm not saying that that stuff is not cool or anything, it doesn't matter if it's cool or anything. The idea is that the world does not give a shit about who you are or the things that are important to you. It's only important to you. And that doesn't mean it's unimportant. It just means it's important to you. And it's like, that's like that, I feel like that. That's something that like, eventually as you get older, the world, in a roundabout way, will tell you. You're nobody.

Tawny: 37:00

He had to wait till he was 85 and had Alzheimer's or whatever, but it's like you, you ain't shit.

Chris: 37:06

Yeah, that's the thing to like, to, uh, there is there. I think that's kind of the message, you know, like, to some extent is like, you know, this person at the start of the film is beyond reproach. Like, they literally paint him as beyond reproach. And by the end of the film, those closest to him are super okay with watching him get choked out by his wife. And it's like, it's like, yes, like I said, I mean, and I think like, the other piece of it is this guy, like, we sit and watch. This isn't in a different world. He's the bad guy we're watching from afar, and the intimacy of what we're given in this movie... Really, it's it's helpful because how do you you can you can imprint this upon any monster in the real world. And understand that like, this is just a small man. And it doesn't matter how physically whatever they are, they're still a small man.

Miles: 38:23

I mean, that's what a lot of just dictators and just people who I mean look at somebody like a Hitler who was like, this dude is nothing.

Tawny: 38:31

fragile, fragile little souls.

Miles: 38:34

Very weak people, not physically intimidating at all, just a very regular person that just for whatever reason their insecurities forces them to do this horrific stuff to people and I don't know, like, that's, I guess the the craziness of, specifically for me, men in power. I have issues with men in power. I don't trust men in power, I just don't. I've seen it only go wrong most of the time. I'm not saying everybody but...

Tawny: 39:08

everybody.. I'm not saying everybody.

Miles: 39:10

not saying everybody. I'm just saying hen you give men too much power.

Chris: 39:14

We be trippin'

Tawny: 39:15

When you give anybody too much power. I mean, anybody.

Miles: 39:19

Especially men though. I'm a man too. I'm just observing like other like, men that I've seen that have grown and gotten power, like, what's up with y'all?

Chris: 39:35

To keep it 100, if you give me enough power, I'mma start tripping.

Miles: 39:40

I'mma start trippin' a little bit. I'm not gonna do like genocide trippin. Genocide trippin' is a little bit too far for me, but I might trip a little bit. A little bit.

Chris: 39:52

I mean, you know. That's how it be sometimes. I mean, it's so cool to see the the. It's interesting, because, you know, you see what happened to Alma. At the end, you actually see what happened to her, and what a complete loss of power she was in in that moment. And you it's I think it's so man. It's like I'm coming to these realizations as we're talking about it, but like, I'm thinking about the fact that we are, we spend so much time with her when she's introduced and throughout the film. And but we're not given that we're not given that moment, even though it could have been given to us because it's kind of already... it becomes apparent that she is a product of his sin in some way. But in the end, we see it, then we see her at her loss of power at the end. And it's interesting to me, because throughout most of the movies, she see seems in control of everything that is happening. And he seems so powerless. And so it's so cool that you don't actually get that moment until the end. Because then it's like, it's it's almost more heartbreaking. Because you see what happened to her and you've already her character in your mind is already built to be what it's been throughout the movie, which is like, man, okay, what happened to this woman? Because, like, She's like, a real one, you know? And you see it like, man, like, and so I don't know, there's something about that imagery. Two of us getting this swapped power dynamic. And then in the end getting what the physical reality realm 30 years ago power dynamic was, and how different it was.

Miles: 41:40

Also, also like the scene where there's like scrubbing the wall, and she's, like, asking her all these questions like she's suspicious of her and she's like, asking her where she's from. And I forget exactly what she's saying. But it's just something Yeah, the people from the village they've never heard of you or something like that. Yeah, that degree Well, I love that scene because she still stays in character. She doesn't really get super fluster. She doesn't talk much. And that's sort of his her defense mechanism. Anyways, like, she's quiet. She doesn't say a ton.

Chris: 42:15

She doesn't lie, either. She just tells her.

Tawny: 42:18

She says, like, what is that? Like? She's from this? I think Sara says like, she's from a place where there's lots of water. And that that and that is something that like, the water, the water, the water, and it's just really interesting, if you think about what water means, right, like water, waterways. And this goes back to like, and I've been doing this in my classes, like slave narratives, like the crossing of rivers, waterways, are these sacred spaces. And you know, they're their spaces of sort of, not instability necessarily, but places where things can change and happen like where one thing can cross into another thing. And, and La Llorona as traditionally a symbol of sort of terror of those spaces his version opens it up to being maybe spaces of justice like spaces where wrongs can be righted, you know and these spaces of waterways and movement and it's just it's so beautiful I really as much as like, I wish I didn't have to watch it at four in the morning... cuz my life is hell right now. I really was just like I'm really glad I saw this movie and was introduced to this telling because I think it's wonderful and transformational and I honestly can't...I really want to tell everybody they should watch it

Miles: 43:54

yeah it's definitely worth... I probably at some point will watch this again because there's there's stuff that I know for certain like just missed and like what I almost have to watch stuff multiple times like I never really get the full thing and I think that's what art is like you're supposed to like I don't think it's just a one time thing like and then you know like you get everything all in one sitting like I just I don't even think that's possible like it takes so much to put this stuff together that there's so many details that you would never catch all in one sitting but I I enjoyed this and it was creepy as hell like I bet on

Tawny: 44:37

Did you like the gauziness just like the gauzy... like everything? And it reminded me and I felt like it was really like evocative of again the original legends of like The Woman in White who like wanders the riverbanks at night. But there's this like mist. There's even like the the moment the part where the the Mayan Ixil woman is testifying, and she's, you know, they have their veils on like, there's this sort of like gauzy barrier between experiences between worlds that I think carries through the film. Like, there were a lot of moments when I noticed how fuzzy or like how diffuse the lighting looked, you know, like there was sort of like a diffuse quality.

Miles: 45:20

I put it on and then I got up like midway through and went to get something to drink. And I walked into the living room and again the house, the house is like, pitch dark and

it's like 12: 45:29

30m... everybody sleep, there's no lights on and I walk in the living room, and my son left like his hat, like, like, in a bundle of clothes or whatever. So when I walked in there, it looked like somebody was sitting on the couch. And I just kind of froze like, you know, when you like and get, like, immediately, your just kind of jumps out of your chest. My heart jumped out of my chest and I was scared as motherfucker. Listen.. I'm sorry, okay, I didn't do it. I don't got no problems. I'm watching the movie right now. I'm trying to figure out what your story is right now. All I'm saying is, what I'm trying to say is I got a family. Okay. I'm copping all types of please like Yo, and then when I realized what it was, like oh shit, I gotta get my life together, because that scared the shit out of me. I was like, now who the hell would position these clothes here position this way with a hat on top?

Chris: 46:38

Y'all think y'all funny. You know, it's like we say that's unrealistic in scary movies when those those fake scares, and it's like, Oh, yeah...

Miles: 46:45

it's really your mind plays tricks on you. Especially when you're in like a heightened sense of just paranoia. Your mind will start to literally play tricks on you, you'll see stuff that's like, What the hell was that? Like, I'll be sitting here and it's late. And I'm a night owl. I just stay up. I don't go to sleep. And I'm up doing stuff. And if I'm watching something that's creepy or I'm just thinking about something or I'm not thinking about anything at all, I'll just see stuff off the corner of my eye. Light will flicker a certain way from the TV that'll make something else or something will fall down randomly.

Tawny: 47:20

I see that fucking demon from the Exorcist, that white face with the black... I see that all the time. And I'm like, Oh, come on. Like are you serious? Still?

Chris: 47:31

That's how you know, you've you've consumed one too many horrors based on Guatemalan legends.

Miles: 47:38

When we like when there's somebody's birthday in our house, like we always get everybody balloons or whatever, like the helium balloons and will like leave it in the living room or whatever the case and you know, and like you can hear it like in the night like balloons just moves but the ones I like I'll wake up and like look and like I'll see the balloon like coming under... into the door way. I'm like listen motherfucker, take your ass back outside the room.

Tawny: 48:13

There's no birthday celebrations in this room.

Miles: 48:17

It's creepy like it is like that happened... but I think that that I think I told you about it. Chris ,it's how paranormal activity was made. The I forget his name, but he was thinking like a like a detergent bottle or something like that. Or he heard a loud sound like at home. Yeah. And him and his girlfriend. They went to investigate it. They didn't know what it was for a couple of days. And then like a couple of days later, they had figured out that some laundry detergent bottle had like fallen and fallen behind the washer dryer or something. It just made this loud bang. And they ended up he started a thought just popped in his mind. Like what if there was a ghost in here? Or if there was something in here? How would I know that there was something in here the only way I could possibly know that if I just set up cameras and filmed and he was talking about how if I set up cameras in my house, and I saw the slightest thing, it didn't even have to be anything dramatic. If I saw a door slightly move in the middle of the night by itself, I would be completely freaked out. And that was sort of the whole idea of paranormal activity with a stop. That's awesome. But you didn't make the movie till like a year because he wasn't a filmmaker at all. He was just some guy that worked for Sony.

Tawny: 49:37

If you have cats though, that like that. You just you're just like it's the cat.

Miles: 49:40

Oh yeah, my cat used to be... yo your cat and night goes crazy. My cat has to be all over the place.

Tawny: 49:47

They're in the jungle at night. Yeah, for sure. For reals, I'm like what are you doing? Like what are you doing over there? But they catch bugs and shit. So that's cool.

Chris: 49:59

So this this i think i think that that sums up like that sums up this movie, you know, cats in the dark. No, I think what does sum it up is like it this is this was a super unsettling, very like specific kind of horror that We have not covered, we had not covered to this point yet on the show. Our first foreign film, I think we've covered a cool, a Guatemalan legend. And I think what this sort of rule of keep the culture and the power the moment of our indigenous hero, heroine of the story is what saves the day. And ultimately, the genocidal maniac that we've been following meets his end. I think, it really makes us a special kind of story because this film it takes everything from a different perspective than what we're used to. It doesn't follow the usual horror tropes. And so I think this is like a movie that I think a lot of people who are listening to this right now, you know, maybe hadn't seen up to this point. And hopefully, you have now if you're at this point in the show, and if you haven't still check it out. It's not like there's a huge twist to it, I would say, it's, it's still a great story. Any final thoughts on La Llorona?

Tawny: 51:35

Like, see it... just like just see it if you can, like if you can manage, if you have shutter? That's easy. If you're a horror person, but but I love my shutter subscription is like$5.

Miles: 51:46

Yeah, it's super affordable. Why do we keep plugging the shit out of... Man, it's great. Like it's affordable. You can get it with your family. It's everything that you need, like, go get Shudder, what's they're slogan? That's the last thing...

Chris: 52:07

And while you're at it, download Raid Shadow Legends The app on iOS and Android

Miles: 52:15

...and if you set up a Squarespace, type in this code. Everybody got Squarespace... Go watch this movie though, man. It's good as it has nothing to do with the other thing I just said. But I feel like there's so many there's so many movies like this that are like really good that don't get seen because of reasons and there's they're small, there wasn't a lot of promotion for it.

Tawny: 52:38

I read a review that was like the fact that this is a Shutter exclusive shows the complete lack of imagination of studios. Like that nobody picked this up, because it's so good.

Miles: 52:50

There's a lot of...

Tawny: 52:53

Lnowing Latinos go to see horror movies more than the average person, like in a statistically significant way like not like nobody picked this up? You know?

Miles: 53:04

You know what it is... with this with this movie specifically, like with movie studios. This is not simple. Like it's, it's not easily digestible. It's not just a popcorn film that the jumpscares, the stupidity is what makes people spend money on stuff because it's it's very easy for them to buy into like people are fucking dumb. Like, let's just be honest. People like collectively are pretty stupid, especially in America we like, come on, it's America, like America likes pretty easy shit...

Tawny: 53:40

I just saw a thing that was like Americans just don't read, like the American... it's getting worse and worse every year. Like people don't read.

Miles: 53:49

People like simple stuff. Like it's why some of the more...

Tawny: 53:52

Honestly the dumb thing though, is that I think this movie has an audience like I think people

Miles: 53:58

yeah, it definitely

Tawny: 54:00

I think people would pay attention to it. I think people would like it. It's just that it like...

Miles: 54:05

It annoys me when movies like this come out that are well-made films. And then people's, like critics like it or whatever the case is, or people see, I feel like movies like this always get labeled as being like pretentious or some shit like, because it's so artistic. It's so thoughtful.

Tawny: 54:25

or just because it's in a different language.

Miles: 54:26

Yeah, that two people really get irritated when like, I've noticed people who do not like when filmmakers try really hard to, like, be artistic and be thoughtful people get pissed. Like when something it's a movie could be complete shit like and terrible. And they'll be like, Yeah, but that's what they were trying to do. Like, whatever, they'll have an excuse for it. And then like a filmmaker will like really try to be artistic take risks and do different things that they haven't seen and people hate they get pissed, like they hate it. Like it's kust so fucking pretentious.

Tawny: 55:04

I feel that that's shifting though, especially with the success of like the Ari Aster movies. And like, It Follows which I think we've sort of briefly talked about. There are some like prestige, horror movies that have also earned popular approval.

Miles: 55:23

There are. They're just they're they're like a few far in between I feel like there are gems that sort of cut through that transcend even, you know the genre that they're in like, like Hereditary or It Follows. Like they sort of transcend the genre that they're in, where they're not even just good horror movies, they're just damn good movies in general. And they're, they they teeter very well on being artistic, while also being like digestible, like entertainment. Like I can watch this...

Tawny: 55:55

It's like horrific, even if like, I think even if people didn't quite, maybe pick up on all the notes and all the layers of like something like Hereditary, it was still disturbing enough, and worked well enough on this level of just like outright horror, that people responded to it.

Miles: 56:15

It Follows is even a better example of it being successful, because that's a very simple movie, it is not complicated. There's not an excessive amount of layers to it, and it just works. Like you can follow it easy. And it's terrifying.

Chris: 56:33

And that's the thing like It Follows was, like, so I think we're talking too about... there's still a gap though, like for general audiences, because like, I think Hereditary was well received from people who love movies. But I know a lot of people direct like, personally, who didn't like Hereditary or Midsomer..

Miles: 56:53

My wife hates all of those.

Chris: 56:55

Yeah, cuz I mean, for them, it's just like... It's, yeah, there's still a gap there. And you know, this, this movie has all of the beautiful, beautifully made movie, we appreciate it. I think people who love movies will appreciate it. I do think, you know, there's Bong Joon Ho talked about it the one-inch-tall barrier of subtitles. Yeah, he's talked about the one -inch barrier of subtitles and how people see subtitles, and they immediately turn away. That's one thing, too, there's no big stars or big no big American stars in it. Like if they remake this, by with an American director, which has been done in the past, then suddenly, it becomes marketable. Or it's too art like it's got all the things you know, usually need one of one of a certain small list of things for this to suddenly be marketable to American audiences. And this movie doesn't have those things. It doesn't have, it's all in English. It's got an American big star in it. It's a super easy to digest kind of sit down and shove it in my eye holes type of thing.

Miles: 58:13

All that working against it, like everything that make Americans be like, this is a good movie. Americans will watch this and be like, this is terrible. This shit is boring as hell this shit is slow is nothing happened like

Chris: 58:31

I hate that. That's what happen with Arrival. Everybody I knew hated Arrival when it came out. I was like... I loved the movie. It's so boring. It's like, oh uh.

Miles: 58:42

Nothing happened. People are really like, basic when it comes to just in general. Like, I mean, it's just the truth about like, the United States specifically, it's just basic... people like basic shit, like they don't like, like the masses, the general masses. There's an audience like, obviously, us we watch this type of stuff, and Hereditary and Midsomer. And even It Follows which, again, it follows is unique because it does a great balancing act of doing both at the same time, which I think is the key to success is this is super entertaining, but it's extremely artistic, to where the people that don't give a fuck about artistic won't even notice that it's artistic. Because it's so entertaining. Like they won't even say that that's sort of the key to making it work is like sprinkling a little bit in for both sides. Because if you just make a straight art film, and last year was pretentious as hell, man, oh my God, I hate like they won't like it

Chris: 59:46

It's and it's always been just people don't realize how long that's been like, you know, you might say, Oh, well, what about The Shining. It's like, yeah, The Shining got terrible reviews when it came out. It's like, we appreciate it now. But the artsy elements of that that movie was the things that were weird and off putting. People didn't dig it back then. And so maybe, similarly, a lot of these films that we enjoy now some of them are being well received immediately. Some like this might take some time for people to come across it and Maybe it'll get the attention it needs maybe maybe from being mentioned on a very popular podcast or something. See now See, see how it works. Now we're the ones. So I This was real fun. Yeah, like I, you know, to be fully transparent, we were really trying to figure out how to tackle this film because it is not the it is not an anaconda, Anaconda or a Dusk Till Dawn. But this is great. And we're so super excited to have been introduced to this, this film and have this really good conversation about it. So next week, we'll be talking about another movie, probably not something this heavy. But another movie, and coming up with another rule for how to survive. Oh, I shouldn't say how to survive, how to not die first, at least in a horror movie. So if you're listening on Spotify, please share this. Any you know, Podcast Network, Stitcher, Apple Podcasts, Pear, podcast, hatever, we're probably there. e're also on YouTube. If you're n YouTube, please leave a omment. Please just like this ideo, subscribe, do whatever ou can to support this. We're eally trying to grow this udience and the conversations hat we're having. And please ust be a part of this ommunity. The Two Blacks in a exican team, we're coming up ith all kinds of new ideas. ollow us on Instagram. We've ot some finally got some really reat content on there. We had ike two posts for a long time. Now we got like more than two osts. And that's pretty dope. nd just follow us in any way hat you can and show love to his community and we'll efinitely show love back. We'll ee you next time.